RevRenee
Founder-Wehemu
Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
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Em hotep Friends
<bow>
The following is a note I sent to my college students and want to share with all of you. A temple is not a political organization. Yet when things on this scale happen it becomes unethical for us not...at the very least to discuss the issue. The college is a Catholic University and so basic human values are assumed to be shared.
Please feel free to disagree (respectfully), discuss, ask questions, consider Ma'at in terms of the current middle East situation
As always differences are welcome..personal attacks are not.
My Letter follows:
As a Kemetic Priest and someone teaching ethics, philosophy and religion in college classes I would be remiss not to mention my own view on the recent events in Iraq. I waited until all grades where in and I did not mentiion my position during the course so as not to worry any radical conservatives in the class.*smile*
I would never grade anyone down due to their opinion yet I know how students can get and so I spared you that discomfort.
I want to share my concern with you. I am afraid for those imprisoned in Iraq, for the Iraqi people. and for those guarding them or stationed there. I do not value American lives more than Iraqi lives. I an afriad for my Arab relatives , friends and students many of whom who have been receiving awful treatment in various places since 9/11. And the reports of the sort of abuses done in Iraqi prisons have now surfaced as having been done to many Arabs in the US in the US prison system
And I am afraid of what I view as a creeping facism justified by a vague struggle against an unnamed enemy which at times seems to simply be Arab peoples and those who oppose US and Israeli actions. I am one of those persons.
The more "minor" abuses scare me equally..I am afraid too that many of these abuses have often been linked to their prisoners faith (making them denounce Islam, masterbate, eat pork, wear womens garmets as head covers and so forth)
And I am personally afraid.
I have been an activist for a long time. The Palestinian people's plight has been particularly close to my heart and yet...
I have never before had to wonder if merely writing a letter such as this one could bring on problems from FBI or put be on a national security threat list. I have seen that happen to people I know. It is not that the US never before repressed freedom of speech or opposition to its policies.
The difference is that in the past it had to be done either within the law..or covertly.
I do not mean to imply that covertly supplying weapons against congressional decisions or supporting countries engaged in genocidal practices (heh- as we did in the past with Iraq and Saddam) is a good thing or an ethical thing.
The difference though is that today many Americans are willing to consider the necessity of torture, of violating international laws, of suppressing our civil rights for the sake of "security"
Yet there is an irony. By becoming a garrison state and acting in this way we leave people no choice or means of resistance outside of guerilla warfare. And that means more security messures will always be needed and greater repression of rights and freedoms become more and more necessary. It is an escallating cycle of violence.
The thing about a cycle of violence is you cannot stop it from WITHIN the cycle. As long as there is a garrison state there will be resistence---including armed resistence with whatever those resisting can bring to bear
We have seen this approach already. Not far from Iraq we can watch this play out in the Palestine/Israel conflict. The truth is they in the cycle.
For Israel to exist as a garrison state ---implies always suicide bombers and other resistance will plague Israel....And on the other hand..the continued uprisings of the Palestinains gives the reasion to be to the state of Israel
Ever hear the expression if you find yourself in a hole--STOP DIGGING?
The situation in occupied Palestine and Israel is an example of what happens when a state maintains its power by acts of violence and state sponsored terrorism. The unlawful ravaging of the houses of thousands of Palestinians, the shooting into a peaceful demonstration last week and the open campaign to assassinate Palestinian leaders, the torture and murder of palestinians in prison ..only feeds resistance... And the resistance then becomes the basis for greater retaliation
Let us be honest- militant resistance to occupation in Palestine and in Iraq cannot be called terrorist. Many more have been killed in the terrorism led by the occupation givernments then have been in "suicide bombings" and so called "terrorist acts"
Our government was the last to join the UN countries condemnations of these recent events in Palestine..events no less genocide than those in Sarajevo ..and yet us condemnation of these events was not only late, butweak and only verbally. Hardly a strong stance when most of the funding of these military operations comes from the US. Clearly we have some power and influence here! And clearly we have made a choice to look the other way.
It seems we are modeling ourselves on this way of handling terrorism.
Which brings me back to my fears
We could not have done this in the past--at least not openly
There is SOME opposition now. But rather light. Suppose the same happened to people you considered "your people".... or your relatives..would it be enough for you?
So I am afraid that the soul of America as been deformed.. that we are so afraid of "terrorism" that we cannot distinguish resistance to an occupation from terrorism...Arab pows from terrorists, Arab civillians from terrorists..or those of us who believe US actions are wrong..like myself ...as terrorists or potential terrorists
And I am concerned about many of you.
I am concerned, for example that the abuses in the American held areas which are rather widespread (as the evidence clearly shows)..and that many of you who go to school here may well find yourselves, your friends or your loved ones.. as military in the position of deciding..whether to participate in such activities...and whether to obey if you are ordered to do so by someone of higher rank.
This used to be clear and simple matter. You see after World War ll and in Vietnam soldiers knew "I was ordered" would not get them off the hook.
The reason being that at that time people knew..knew for sure ...such orders were illegal...
and further that they would be held accountable in international court
But today..we are told by our president himself that this is not a war and these are not POWS and they are not entitled to these protections. Further we have insisted to the united nations exemption from any international court proceedings
So how could a soldier be sure that torture and abuse of prisoners is "against the law".
Some of you might think//"Well duh! Its TORTURE"
You may recall we discussed the difference between LAW and ETHICS. Law is simply the legislated policy which may or may not have a ethical basis.
I suspect most of you know it is ethically wrong to torture a human being..but is it illegal? I do not believe this is yet made perfectly clear.
And reading the world press I can see that most the world believes it has not been made clear. Human rights organizations have also called on our leaders to make an unequivocal statement forbiddingf these practices.
That has not happened
I hope though regardless, regardless of what our leaders do...each of us will hold firmly and unequivovcally to the basic Catholic Value..the basic human value..that condemns such torture under any circumstances. And I hope if any of you find yourselves in a position wehre you must decide-- must either due to peer pressure...or an order of a superior..that you will be willing to do what is ethically right.
As my Way of Wisdom students have just struggled to read Sarte they know they ALWAYS have a choice..and that choice determines who they are.
Sartre really was quite an individualist. I am not. I would say that that choice plays a role in determining how the our communities and our world will be...and in turn how that will affect each of us and our own familes.
Here too there there is potential for a circle. Unlike the vicious circle of self perpetrating violence..to we have the option to be a part of a the compassionate strength of the circle of life....and to hold that out as a real option..a choice
Be Well
Rev Renee Levant
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Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
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ChildofSelket
KOL
Reged: 11/28/04
Posts: 4
Loc: Colorado
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The American government has taken drastic steps. I DO NOT agree with the torture going on in Iraq and the U.S.! It's horrible! Before the whole torture thing was shown to citizens I was proud to be an American, BUT due to recent events concerning the treatment of Iraqis I'm not sure I am proud now. lol I think we need a female pres.
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Nekhen_Re
KOL
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 36
Loc: North Richland Hills, Texas; U...
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To explain what a war does to someone, to someone who has not been there, is nearly impossible. The smell of the battlefield (or in this case, house to house), is enough to make many people lose their minds and act in ways they would never act under normal circumstances. Toss in a bunch of teenagers who joined the military to simply get funds for college, and abuses WILL happen.
While this is not an excuse, it is expected. It is a fact of life/war. And when it occurs those who do it should be punished quickly and severely. It is unacceptable, no matter what the circumstances.
However, it is upsetting to see people misguided by a one sided, ultra liberal press. While the post-war rebuilding has been completely mismanaged, please keep in mind a couple of things:
A) Though it might not be perfect, Iraqis will be voting in less than 30 days. Without the war, NO vote would be possible.
B) As an Iraqi friend pointed out to me, if you take the most deadly day in Iraq, and had that EVERY day for the next 100 years, it still would not add up to the deaths that occured (and would continue to occur) under Saddam. His quote: "My chances of being tortured or killed in Iraq now are thousands of times less than it was before."
C) No matter what the press tells you, the people blowing things up in Iraq would NOT be sitting around drinking soda and playing checkers if there was no war. Instead, they would be either in the USA or Israel doing it. As someone who lost friends on 9/11, I must say better to be over there than over here. That's a sad statement, but sorry my family comes first.
D) And oh how I hate to quote George Bush, but one thing he said was true: Just because someone has brown skin and is Muslim, does not mean they want to live in violence and not have freedom. As my friend mentioned above told me, he would rather spend an eternity in an American run Iraqi prison and be "tortured" there, than go through the torture he was put through under Saddam. (He was hung upside down while his wife, teenage daughter, and preteen daughter were raped in front of him by Saddam's men).
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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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Nekhen_Re
KOL
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 36
Loc: North Richland Hills, Texas; U...
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I hope my last post didn't make me sound too "pro war", when in theory I'm against it (sometimes people just have to have an uprising of their own to really become free, without interference from outsiders). So I'm not as much against it for the same reasons as others who are. But, as the people I know in Iraq say, even today's situation isn't nearly as bad as it was before.
But Rev Renee is correct, an occupation of any type is bad and the retaliation is expected. Remember, I was raised Irish Catholic with my family coming from Derry and Belfast. If anyone can understand the frustration its me. I have family is S. Armagh who are simple farmers. Within 100 yards of their house is a British outpost, with listening devices that pick up literally every word they say in their home. So there can be no "secrets". However, the soldiers on a monthly basis feel the need to swoop down in their helicopters and make the cattle stampede and suck up and slaughter half their chickens in the blades. Or instead of walking around the road, they cut through the fields, cutting the fence and leaving it open for the animals to escape. How can retaliation against that be consider terrorism? It can't.
But it has to stop. We can debate for years on who started it and who is wrong, but it doesn't matter. One side must stop first. As I said, I understand the frustration, but blowing up babies is not going to help the cause. Traveling 10,000 miles to crash airplanes into buildings is not going to help the cause.
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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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WabJenSoko
Wab Priest / KOL Newsletter Editor / Central Regio
Reged: 08/22/01
Posts: 850
Loc: Lost in Middle America
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Em hotep *bow*
Quote:
However, it is upsetting to see people misguided by a one sided, ultra liberal press.
*Cough*Fox News*cough* I'm sorry, but the so-called liberal press is a fallacy. Major news networks are owned by corporate conglomerates (all heavy contributors, supporters, and policy contributors to right-wing sponsored causes). And when was the last time you saw a report that wasn't in line with white house press releases? Sorry, but every single one of 'em is in it for the money and the shock value. If they were really liberal, they'd still be up in arms over the suppression of war images. Why are we forbidden to see pictures the flag-draped coffins of our dead young people coming home?
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senebty,
Jen Sokoloski, Wab Priest of Ptah
Per AnkhThe Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
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Nekhen_Re
KOL
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 36
Loc: North Richland Hills, Texas; U...
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Oops, did forget about that one. Probably why I don't watch it much. And there is the Washington Post as well. I will never argue that out of the thousands, there are a couple. I never meant for it to sound like I meant 100% are liberal, just the majority (Remember, I'm more of a liberal myself, so I judge by which ones make me the happiest/maddest)......
As far as why we aren't allowed to see the coffins, I hate that. In my opinion it takes away from the honor that our soldiers died with in what seems an attempt to put them in the shadows. As a disabled vet, I can't tell you how much this bothers me.
99% of my unit members that were killed were always killed in "training missions". But that is the information that we knew would be released when we signed the dotted line. Heck, some of them weren't even confirmed (nor denied, I will also add) to be in the military.
But these soldiers in Iraq, or the majority of them at least, did not sign the same dotted line that we did and they should be allowed to be known, respected, etc.
However, as upsetting as it is, I do understand the reason behind it. In short, its because this isn't 1945 anymore. Remember the good old days? When Hitler would gas a few thousand Jews and his army kill our soldiers, when their bodies came home they were treated with honor, dignity, and respect. But it isn't that way anymore, sadly. It is literally taking everything in the world to keep from turning this into another Vietnam (remember, "hate the war, not the warrior" John Kerry).
In those days, seeing those coffins made people want to go kill the bad guys. They looked at the coffins and blamed those responsible: The enemy who pulled the trigger. And it made them want to join the effort and support our country.
But today, we are unable to point the finger at the real killers, instead it will be everyone's fault but the person who drove the car loaded with explosives into a crowd of civilians, including children. Sadly it will be the majority that will blame everyone else, not the actual person or group responsible.
So by showing the coffins, the administration is setting itself up to take the blame for something that someone else did. Even my friends who support the war, it is sad to say that each time they complain, it comes out "Damn that George Bush". Not once has it been "Damn those terrorist".
It is really odd.
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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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RevRenee
Founder-Wehemu
Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
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Em hotep all
<bow>
I have many soldiers in the classes I teach. Saint Leo's has a really disproportionate number of military among our undergraduate students.
Yet regardless of what "side" of the war they are on and whether they are "pro" or "anti-Bush" all are horrified at the realities of war. I have found few fully satisfied with Bush's handling of the war EVEN among those who feel the war was necessary.
Nekhen_Re-- you might be surprised on some of the points you raise if you read the international press. It presents very different information than the US press. I do not believe there was another time in the history of the United States when the information given and shared with the general population was so very limited.
My greatest concern is for democracy. Democracy requires an educated public. And a key facett of education is the ability to take on different perspectives and see the world through those perspectives. I do not mean one must sit on the fence and cannot have a definite point of view. HA! that would eliminate myself:)
I do mean that educated people are interested in the perspective of other people. And I mean INTERESTED ,,,not merely to tear down theopposition but to grow in understanding human persons and human cultures. I find people who have little contact with Arab cultures all too free to make general statements about the cultures/beliefs and feelings.
The fact is at this moment the vast majority of US citizens SUPPORT restrictions on Arabs and Arab Americans as shown in many polls.
That is scarey. For ALL of us. Churches and Religious organizations must speak out against the erosion of human rights regardless of individual Priests or members positions on the war.
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WabJenSoko
Wab Priest / KOL Newsletter Editor / Central Regio
Reged: 08/22/01
Posts: 850
Loc: Lost in Middle America
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Hotep *bow*
(And I'm really trying not to pick on you here, but this war raises issues that happen to relate to places where the Kemetic worldview takes a divergence with modern western thought...and it might make a nice "object lesson" talking point.)
Quote:
But today, we are unable to point the finger at the real killers, instead it will be everyone's fault but the person who drove the car loaded with explosives into a crowd of civilians, including children. Sadly it will be the majority that will blame everyone else, not the actual person or group responsible.
Or, shift your focus a little further out and ask, "why?" When awful tragedies like car bombs, Oklahoma City, 9/11, and Columbine happen, the first and foremost thing people want to know is, "Why?" What motivated these people to do the awful things they did. When you really search for answers outside of the soundbyte, or once you go beyond the soundbyte (so-and-so is a terrorist, such-and-such came from a broken home, whosit wanted money, etc.) to still ask why, or even, what made this person think this would change anything, we come to the realization that we are part of a systemic organism, a whole that is made up of events and causality as well as actions and reactions.
And you start to ask, what motivates this person to think that blowing up themselves and an entire Jerusalem pizza joint will change things? And you realize that for someone to give up on life, they gotta be desperate enough to think that death is better than how they are living...or that they have nothing left to lose. Part of the belief that the world in general tends towards Ma'at is the belief that people generally want to be happy at their state of existence, or at the very least, left alone about it. So when such a state of Isfet exists as to make the appearance of Ma'at be such violence, then we have to ask, "what's wrong with this picture?" And we have to mean the whole picture, not just one specific part of it. And in the whole picture, the actions of this administration are *not* encouraging people who would otherwise be minding their own business or choosing less violent ways of getting their point across to choose those less violent ways.
I don't fully put the blame entirely on America's shoulders--far from it. In a systemic worldview, it becomes very obvious very early on that numerous, multiple factors are behind just about everything. And the way to feed Ma'at then, is to attempt to change the factors that we can change, and one of those is the hardline aggression taken on by this administration.
Quote:
So by showing the coffins, the administration is setting itself up to take the blame for something that someone else did. Even my friends who support the war, it is sad to say that each time they complain, it comes out "Damn that George Bush". Not once has it been "Damn those terrorist".
Not to put too fine a point on it, but *we* invaded *Iraq.* Bush and his administration *chose* the time and place and circumstances (and they are also choosing to continue to let the troops go into deadly situations *without* the armor they need, so yeah, I *am* saying, "Damn George Bush," because he's not listening to the experts. And in the Kemetic worldview, leaders have a greater responsibility towards their people than the average grunt--with great power comes great responsibility, and it's a leader's job to carry Ma'at, a little moreso because of the power inherent in leadership, than the average Joe-hotep.
I do blame George Bush, because, to put it bluntly, Where's Osama? Osama who funded and promoted the people who hijacked airplanes and flew them into buildings. Saddaam Hussein is not a good person or a person in Ma'at by any stretch of the imagination, but he wasn't responsible for the attack on 9/11. The guy who was, still runs free. People were saying "damn those terrorists" back in 2001. People are still saying "damn those terrorists," but are asking why they seem to be growing, and coming up with the way this administration is reacting to the situation.
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It is really odd.
Not as odd when you look at it with an eye on the systemic. Now by the same token, you can come to the conclusion that if the big picture warrants it in a situation, that violence *is* an option that is in Ma'at. But I do sincerely believe that it's rarer than most of the world's governments make it out to be.
And I have to tell you...I get most of my news from foreign press these days, and since Thursday, I'm officially boycotting American mainstream media. I live in Ohio and witnessed the appalling abuses of power, partisanship, and systemic voter disenfranchisement that occurred November 2, and the fact that when a Senator and a Congresswoman stood up and challenged the Electoral votes from Ohio for only the second time in about 100 years, it barely made the middle of the papers (and sometimes not at all) leads me to believe that Journalism, if not Democracy, is dead in America. I don't read or listen to local news anymore except for the weather, and maybe the traffic. If they're not going to report the *news* then I'll find it through Guardian.co.uk or other international/foreign press.
Senebty,
WabetJen
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senebty,
Jen Sokoloski, Wab Priest of Ptah
Per AnkhThe Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
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Nekhen_Re
KOL
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 36
Loc: North Richland Hills, Texas; U...
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Wabetjen and RevRenee,
First, let me say that I don't think anyone is picking on me. Especially since I don't think you understand how much our views are alike. How we deal with the war is very important, both on a political level and a spiritual level at the same time.
The only thing that I would say qualifies for "picking", is the fact that because I have such a hatred for a child rapist like Saddam that I'm some hick from the sticks and stuck in front of Fox News day and night. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
I'll admit the hick part, I'm a city-boy but being from Fort Worth, Texas is automatic hick qualification, even being from the urban area. Yes, we have Longhorns walking through downtown, literally, and that is pretty "hicky" by anyone's standards.
But the radio I listen to is from Cork and Dublin, the two newspapers I read are from Belfast. O'Reilly and his Fox squad don't float my boat.
And no one, even the Arabs, have slammed Bush as hard as the Irish (even most Arabs wanted Saddam and the Taliban gone). So please don't jump to those assumptions.
And please don't jump to the assumption that I don't want to understand other cultures or look at the "why". Again, nothing is more inaccurate. Maybe I was a little vague in my posting about my background as a child and after I left the military, and in a second you will see why (I was hoping you'd pick up on it). It might cause me a little grief, but let me explain it this way and maybe it will be a little more clear: I have Tiocfaidh Ar' La' tattoo'd on my arm and would be more than happy to zap you some pics of me and Gerry Adams. Simply put, Carde Sinn Fein.
Now, let me see if I can explain my perspective on this, because others I have talked to (especially Kemetics) are having the same torn apart feeling I am (where necessity conflicts with spiritual/moral stances).
*Personally* I felt Saddam had to go, and no matter what date was chosen, or what reasons, it was not soon enough. I saw first hand what they did to Kuwait, and having daughters..... You've probably picked up from my posts I don't have much use for baby killers, and child rapists are just below them. I won't even be able to sleep for a week after typing this. Anyone who does those horrors, has got to go, plain and simple. So my support of the war comes from the necessity of removing people like that from the face of the earth. And I'm sure anyone of the female gender agrees with me 100% on this one, especially those who are mothers. So its not a matter of "should we" but "when should we". And I know we will all agree it was long overdue. Raperooms=bad.
Now, has it been flubbed up beyond repair by a fool in a powerful position? No doubt. Anyone who thinks Bush invaded Iraq for all the right reasons and not for Haliburton is nothing less than a fool. The only people I hear arguing that point is those that say "England supports us 100% so we must be right". Well, look at one of the other largest, most powerful companies on the planet. I think their ticker symbol is BP? (British Petroleum). That explains a lot, doesn't it? Wow, I wonder WHY England jumped on the bandwagon?
But even that doesn't take away from my feelings that Saddam had to go. To get rid of that scum, Haliburton and BP can get rich for all I care. The ends justifies the means. But again, I say that because I have seen first hand his horrors. After what I've seen, if I would have been the one to find him in that hole, there would be no need for a trial.
But what do we do now? Who created Saddam? Hell, who created Osama? WE DID. We, I mean, the Americans when we would go in and support someone. When I first joined the military, our allies in the region were Iraqis. The same with Osama when Russia was invading. Not once in the history of the USA have we stepped in, removed a dictator, then not had it come back to bite us. As sad as it is, we created those monsters and now we're having to deal with them. And guess what, when this new monster emerges, our children will be dealing with it because of the decisions our administration made today.
So please understand my support of the war comes from a personal vengence towards that evil, evil man. And also, after being in anti-terrorism, I can understand the military strategy. To fight terrorism and other countries that want nukes, we needed another friendly face in the region beside Israel. So which country should it be? I think the administration assumed that Saddam was so bad that no one in their right mind would ever complain about us removing him. He was the perfect patsy.
Finally, terrorism: There are no reasons nor justifications to blow up children, end of story, fact. If someone wants to take their life to prove a point, I have no problem with that. I respect it. The monks did it in Vietnam on a regular basis. But they simply poured gas on themselves and lit the match.
Why? Because they *KNEW* that grabbing a child of the opposite side and burning the child with them would harm their cause, not help it.
Not anywhere in the history of the world has terrorism turned things around for a side of a conflict. It has only hurt their cause. Do I blame the 15 year old carbomber? Yes. But when they are raised that it is the only resolution, all of the blame can't be put on their shoulders.
I blame the adults and those who teach it will lead to victory. Why don't THEY go blow themselves up? Why don't they lead by example? Simple answer: They aren't stupid and can get other, less fortunate and less educated people to do it for them.
But again, just because I disagree with blowing up children, doesn't mean I'm uneducated and unwilling to learn about another culture. Statements such as that is what hurts the cause as much as the bombings themselves, if not more.
I understand the frustrations, the hopelessness, and the hatred that causes it. Hopefully my explanation of my upbringing has explained that a little better. But to continue to do it, or make statements that someone is uneducated or stuck on Fox news because they disagree with it, only makes the ones who are willing to listen and learn shut their eyes to the plight even more.
I'd say 99% of people I know hate what the Jews do to the Arabs. But every time a Jewish child is blown up, they take the side of the Jews because on the surface, it looks at if they are simply defending themselves from the "terrorists". Is that acurate? Sort of. Is it the whole picture/story? Not by a long shot. But each time a bomb goes off, it is the END of the story, if that makes sense. Its the end of any hope of getting them to see the other side of the story. Dead babies automatically makes those on the fence fall to the other side.
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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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Nekhen_Re
KOL
Reged: 08/25/04
Posts: 36
Loc: North Richland Hills, Texas; U...
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One thing I forgot to mention in my last post: You are absolutely, 100% correct that it is scary for all of us when a group of individuals are restricted for nothing more than the color of their skin and/or their religion. And yes, it is good when more than one side of a conflict is shown and people are able to see it from all sides, equally.
Remember four of the most famous "terrorists" in the world, at least to those that had control of the press at the time? George Washington, Ben Franklin, Sam Adams, and Thomas Jefferson. Reading documents from 1770's England is so interesting, because that is what they were considered at the time. And even with them, there are still different views. Some think they are heros, others think they are evil because they owned slaves. So there are always two sides to the story.
Also, let me apologize if my last post sounded harsh. Reading yours again after I've completely woke up I'm getting an entirely different spin from it and think I took it the wrong way. I hope you understand, my feelings aren't driven as much about the war and the reasoning behind it right now, as much as it is driven by the nightmares that evil man and his regime caused me for so many years, as well as the deaths of so many of my friends. Maybe I shouldn't take it so personally, but its hard not to. But that is where good balance comes in, because others probably wouldn't be so quick to react and act with such vengence as I would if given the opportunity.
I also state this from someone with friends in Iraq. And not just soldiers that are currently deployed there. I'm talking IRAQIS. As I stated in my last post, when I first went into the military (1986), we were supportive of the Iraqis. I can't mention details about what I did then, nor in the 1990's, but I did have the chance to become friends with several of them. The horrors I saw, and they told me about, would make any normal person shiver every time they thought about it.
Which leads to a good final point, and follows up on something Webjen mentioned: Why wasn't there more of an uprising over the coffins not being shown on TV?
The simple answer: People do not want to know, they don't want to see. The press didn't push it because they know this, and though the shock might get a rating for a single day, the backlash would be detremental in the long run for their stations.
As ridiculous as the movie was, no one summed it up better than Tommy Lee Jones in Men in Black: "The end of the world is ALWAYS about to happen. We are always at the verge of an interstellar war. But the only way these people can live, and live happily, is if they don't know about it".
In my last post, I wasn't trying to state someone else's opinion when I stated that we all agree Saddam had to go. A better way to say it would be that any person who has seen, and I mean seen, what he had done for 30 years, would agree that he had to go.
But 99% of the people haven't seen it. There is no one, especially women or parents of girls, that wouldn't have sacrificed their own life to get rid of that man if they were able to witness what he did. Our military would have had to close our borders to keep people IN and from going over there to oust him.
And we had the opportunity to see it, but it wasn't released. Why? Because tonight when we go to bed, we wouldn't be able to sleep if we'd just been reminded 10 minutes earlier that some Iraqi scientist's 11 year old daughter..... you know..... just so he would make chemical weapons.
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"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
- Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)
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