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Pamiuhotep
Priest in Training


Reged: 08/13/01
Posts: 137
Loc: Pugetopolis
Saq it to me!
      #22192 - 03/24/04 09:13 PM

Em Hotep, all

*bows*

Many of you folks know that I had some intense experiences at PantheaCon last year. I've shared quite a bit of it privately and with the Priests, the Priest Candidates, and Nebra, but I've always felt extremely uncomfortable at the idea of fully sharing it in a more public way.

Nevertheless, Rev. Sedgwick asked me to share my experiences, and one should always honour one's sebau... even when it's uncomfortable.

So. I came to PantheaCon last year to meet the various folks of Per Ankh. I was trying to decide if this was a community I wanted to join, or just another bunch of internet drama-queens. Needless to say, I was very impressed after talking with Rev. Jade and Rev. Renee and meeting the amazing people that, like me, were there to check it all out.

A number of public rituals had been scheduled, including a very large (and very popular) Bast ritual. In ancient times, these sorts of public rituals were preceded by a procession, with someone wearing the mask of Wepwawet leading, followed by the priests and other celebrants, including several carrying a boat bearing the statue of Netjer. The Revs planned a similar parade around the hotel for the beginning of the Bast rite, with Wepwawet, fan-bearers, Bast in a boat, the whole shebang.

Nebra made a wonderful Wepwawet mask (thank you, Nebra, thank you!) that was to be used as Wepwawet for the parade, but the person they'd roped in to wearing it was nowhere to be found.

With (only a little) prompting, I volunteered. Llyne and Shanee were to be Wepwawet's fan bearers, so prior to the actual parade, we paced out the route. I tried on the mask and found it very difficult to see through, so we worked out a system for them to physically guide me through the tricky bits, including an awkward staircase.

During the actual procession, something very peculiar (well, peculiar for me at any rate) happened. I started sort of fading out - I don't really remember a whole lot of the procession, or the rite.

Darkwolf was supposed to help me get the mask off during the ritual (once I was no longer being observed), but I just sort of stood there beside the altar throughout the more formal part of the ritual. Rev. Sedgwick told me at our recent retreat that she'd never seen anyone stand so still and so straight for so long.

It was a very peculiar experience, but as it turned out it was only a prelude.

The second experience was even, and I don't know quite how to explain this, larger somehow. It was just a small public ritual for Wepwawet held in one of the hotel conference rooms. I was to wear the mask during a short, round-the-room excusrsion.

I remember putting on the mask and starting the procession around the room, and I remember bits and snatches after that, but the next thing I clearly remember is Wab Sandie taking the mask off of me in a service corridor. It was like the air being sucked out of my lungs - I just sort of collapsed.

Rev. Renee was there in moments, feeding me water and helping me come back from the experience. And what was the experience, exactly? I can't really explain it. I wasn't there.

I was told that Wepwawet had saq'd me - me, who came to PCon not believing in saq. Maybe somebody who was there can explain what it looked like from the outside, but I can't.

And since then, everything's been topsy-turvy. Rev. Renee determined almost immediately that this event was a powerful manifestation of a call to priesthood. It was a frightening, exhausting experience that I can't in good conscience recommend. Wepwawet opened a door for me that day, and it took me quite some time to summon the courage to go through.

I'm still struggling with what happens next.

cheers,

thom

--------------------
Fill yourself with silence; you will find life and your body shall flourish upon the earth. (Amenemope)

Thom Ryng, Priest in Training
Per Ankh The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt

Edited by RevRenee (03/24/04 11:15 PM)


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crimson
KOL


Reged: 04/07/03
Posts: 508
Loc: Nottingham, england
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22195 - 03/24/04 09:56 PM

em hotep thom
*bow*
wow! what an amazing experience! i'm so glad that you have decided to share it with us, even though you were and are still clearly uneasy about telling it....i can only hope that some day i will get saq'ed as well..what an honour!
senebty and thanks again!
crimson


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RevReneeAdministrator
Founder-Wehemu


Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: crimson]
      #22197 - 03/24/04 11:12 PM

#22196 - 03/24/04 06:10 PM
Edit Reply Quote

Hotep Crimson
<bow>

Crimson-- trust me on this--
NO you do not *wink*

There is nothing fun or glamorous about Saq
It is not a "BIG spiritual experience" FOR the person Netjer chooses to ride. It is physically painful at times, exhausting (though that seems to get a bit better with time and training) and most of all anti-climatic !

You see when your in a full possionary trance..YOU have no clue what goes on. While those present.;.or some of those present..MAY get a message or experience that is significant to them..the ONLY significance of the Saq to the one saqed is THAT Netjer has chosen to use them in that way.

At this years retreat..everyone had some sort of transformative experience with Wepwawet. Every from the retreat can speak of their experience of that ritual and of What Wepwawet said or did to or with (as the case may be) each of them.

The only "experience" I had was

1. Being exhausted crashed on the hall floor
2. Feeling like I had run a marathon or that my body had been stretched out by a giant Jackal Who runs marathons , plays basketball and lifts weights easily
3. The confusion of hearing what Wepwawet did while He took me and having to ask what happened? what happened? a LOT
4. Some initial disappointment as we expected Someone else

and Yes..Finally

Awe and Joy...when I watch how Wepwawet's words and action..some of which made no sense whatsoever to me when everyone told me what was said..or even disturbed me THAT it was said..........were..EXACTLY what needed to happen in each case for each person present.

Awe and Joy and Thanks...but not for *my* having the experience as for How Wepwawet provides for each of us and our community... Open the doors in His creation and in our hearts..so that we CAN walk through.

In the end though He left each person with a choice. He doesn't walk through the door *for* us. That is our job.

Very Best

--------------------
Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org


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WabAndyAdministrator
Wab Priest


Reged: 12/31/02
Posts: 453
Loc: New Hampshire
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: RevRenee]
      #22203 - 03/25/04 12:03 AM

I'd also like to go a step further from Rev Renee's coments and say that while Saq can be an incredibly important and transformative experience for those present - it is only ONE of an infinit number of ways that Netjer can chouse to use to communicate with us - and they choose the one that will be most effective at making the communication that They are choosing to make at that time. I tend to think that while some communications may be more important then others, I don't think you can establish the importance of the communication by the method it's delivered.

I did recieve a message of great signifigance to me from Wepwawet at the Saq that Rev Renee is talking about - but I think think it's "more important" then a message that came in the form of a clear realisation that I had in the car on the ride home from work a couple of days ago... in fact I suspect that the opposite is true...

So I guess what I'm saying is that a clue by 4 isn't always necessary for the delivery of an important message - particularly when we are open to hearing the message in question... and Netjer has been working on me for rather a long time to get me to the point that I was ready to hear the message that I got in the car the other night. That it's time for me to go back and look at what sort of work I need to be doing - rather then continueing in what I've been doing since I was in middle school.

Senebty.

Andy

--------------------
Andy Dolph, Wab Priest Aset-Hethert
Per Ankh The Traditional Reigion of Ancient Egypt

Edited by RevRenee (03/25/04 12:26 AM)


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RevSedgwickAdministrator
Heri Tep Hem Netjer


Reged: 04/12/02
Posts: 361
Loc: Racine, WI
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22208 - 03/25/04 12:38 AM

Em hotep, all! <bow>

Thank you very much, Thom, for describing your experience at PantheaCon from the inside out, so to speak. I had observed it from the outside, but that's not at all the same. And you're right--I did say that I had never seen anyone get so much taller and stand so still for so long as you did at the Bast ritual.

Crimson, I really understand how it can feel that being saq'ed by Netjer is a privilege and a powerful experience--and it is. And at the same time, the danger to which we're all responding here is somehow making a hierarchy of religious experiences, as if being saq'ed were more important than, say, being able to communicate well as our own selves, letting Netjer's words flow through us as Wab Sandie did in her beautiful poem she just posted. Probably you've had that experience when you are behind your camera lens--you stop working at it so hard, and the picture that needs to be taken gets taken because you are there. Saq is kind of like that.

And there's another danger, I think, which is the focus on religious experiences. Having a big experience is no guarantee, as Andy notes here, of having had an important experience. Feeling something strongly doesn't mean that one is doing "better" at being a follower of Netjer. Sometimes the desire to have experiences or to feel something can stand in our way, because that desire can keep us from being present to what needs to be done by or through us at the moment.

(I have a whole little sermonette on the relative unimportance of feeling something or feeling good about something when it comes to religious life--but I'll spare you. )

However, since we're talking about experiences, I can chime in here too. I was saq'ed by Amun several years ago, at a time when, like Thom, I didn't really believe in saq, I didn't want to believe in saq, I was not Kemetic, and I was deeply opposed to participating in anything faintly Egyptian. As Rev Renee points out, the message was not for me. However, I got a message also, which was a clear demonstration of how Netjer can, when necessary, choose any vehicle handy to get Its point across. I assume that's why in Voudon the loa are said to "ride" the person.

I remember being taken over, and I remember coming back, and nothing in between. Most of all I remember what it felt like afterward: like having been run over by a truck. Or maybe a fleet of trucks. I was disoriented, achy, thirsty, hot, and tired. Training can, as Rev Renee says, make some of this easier. But Netjer is just too big to fit inside a human body comfortably!

Blessings!

--------------------
Rev Sedgwick Heskett, Hemet NebetHet-Nit and Amun
Heri Tep Hem Netjer Per Ankh
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org


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Pamiuhotep
Priest in Training


Reged: 08/13/01
Posts: 137
Loc: Pugetopolis
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: crimson]
      #22245 - 03/25/04 04:36 PM

Em Hotep, Crimson!

*bows*

Oh! Please, please trust me on this: saq is not something I'd wish for.

I was essentially blacked out during the saq, and I felt sore, achy, dehydrated, and slightly disoriented afterwards. Almost hung over. Not my idea of a good time!

So far as I know, Wepwawet didn't even say anything the whole time he was riding me. He was just... there. A gatekeeper, a guide perhaps, but utterly, utterly silent. So unlike Rev. Renee I didn't even get to hear folks tell me what had been said.

cheers,

thom

--------------------
Fill yourself with silence; you will find life and your body shall flourish upon the earth. (Amenemope)

Thom Ryng, Priest in Training
Per Ankh The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt


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Shepenmut
KOL


Reged: 10/17/02
Posts: 753
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22250 - 03/25/04 05:31 PM

Em Hotep, Thom!

*bow*

This may be a bit out of place. I agree the Netjer are huge I happen to know through this one religious experience I had with Maihes. When my father placed his hands on my face they covered a space from my chin to my forehead. I could feel his moist palms even the smallest details of the lines on the hands. Thank you Thom for sharing your experience with us.

Senebty!


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ShaRenKa_Acre
KOL


Reged: 03/13/04
Posts: 59
Loc: NY
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: crimson]
      #22253 - 03/25/04 07:10 PM

Em Hotep Crimson!
*bow*
I have read all writings here on experiances of being Saq'ed. I guess it an individual thing. I myself after such are left feeling fully recharged...yet a bit disorientated at the same time. And like most..I don't remember
much if anything! Thats why I always have to have a "hold" of myself..I mean not allowing myself to just let go whenever! Yes I do believe it can be controlled. And I always make sure I am not alone.....to me that is very important...not only to have a witness to what has happened, or that was said...but as a safety measure for myself. There have been a few rough times for me...but all in all? I feel if Netjer wishes to use my body as a vessle to reach others ect? Who am I to say no!? Something I didn't see was a description of where those of you "went" while it was taking place. For me...I just floated in this warm comfy dark void...and felt as though a pair of warm hands were benieth me...I must say it felt wonderful! I'd love to hear more of everyones experiances, as this is also the first time I have met others who have gone thru this. Enshala ShaRenKa


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RevReneeAdministrator
Founder-Wehemu


Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: ShaRenKa_Acre]
      #22268 - 03/25/04 10:18 PM

Em hotep Sharenka

:bow:

The experience you describe and feel renewed afterwards is indeed a very real happening...it is a sort of trance experience...however--it is not the same sort of trance experience as full possessionary trance or saq.

I am familar with that sort of experience of the divine and they can be *big* as experiences...and meaningful...but like the wiccan experience of "drawing down the moon" it is not saq.

The reason you did not hear qa description of where we "went" is because that is not at all what happens in Saq

Having come to Kemet and African religions from other religions and having had much experience in trancework-- I too thought I had already experienced what we are calling Saq.
I was very wrong;-)

Senebty!

--------------------
Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org

Edited by RevRenee (03/25/04 10:20 PM)


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Nebra
KOL


Reged: 08/01/02
Posts: 2383
Loc: Left kansas withToto
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22274 - 03/26/04 01:01 AM

Thom.... I'd call what you experianced scarry... it's odd the way we experiance things differently...... for you it was Wepwawet who appeared while wearing the mask ..... but when I made it..... It was Lord Anpu placing the strips of paper on the mask armature not me you could feel him there doing the work ...... seems they both appreciate this mask and you in particular......

--------------------


Icon Photo Gallery


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ShaRenKa_Acre
KOL


Reged: 03/13/04
Posts: 59
Loc: NY
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: RevRenee]
      #22278 - 03/26/04 01:23 AM

Em Hotep Rev Renee!
*bow*
ok...think maybe things are getting confused here...lol This has nothing to do with Wicca at all..or channeling. It's where "someone".."something" utilizes my body to convey messages...the reason why I say it's not channeling either is because people who have experianced this with me..have claimed for instance...one time I held my hand over an open flame for what they said was several mins...(with no burns..marks afterwards) , or that I spoke with a deep mans voice...or with what they called "voices of many". Also have had material objects left during such happenings, also smells, music heard ect. Can you tell me the diffrence between what I'm describing and Saq please? I'm confused. ShaRenKa


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RevReneeAdministrator
Founder-Wehemu


Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: ShaRenKa_Acre]
      #22280 - 03/26/04 03:24 AM

Em hotep Sharenka
:bow:

I can only tell you that there are lots of different sorts of trance in which Netjer or other beings use one in various ways to convey a message

In Saq, for one thing the vehicle (person saqed) does not have conscious awareness of ANYTHING.

This is one of those things that really won't make sense unless and until one has that experience or experiences it several times.

Those who have had both experiences will tell you the experience of Saq is very different from other forms

I hate to sound like I am being a Catholic saying believe this "on faith". Heh

Really I am not saying that at all. Simply that there are some things one can't really get until having the experience.
Actually ..that is generally true. The Yoruba speak of the difference between knowledge ABOUT something..and knowledge by experience and acquantance. Guess which they value more
And really we all can only imagine things based on experiences we have had. I remember as a teenager being annoyed at the suggestion that there were situations I would not really understand until I was older and had certain experiences.

Boy have I found that to be true!

Very Best

--------------------
Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org


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DarkWolf
KOL


Reged: 03/07/02
Posts: 393
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22284 - 03/26/04 04:59 AM

Quote:

Darkwolf was supposed to help me get the mask off during the ritual (once I was no longer being observed), but I just sort of stood there beside the altar throughout the more formal part of the ritual. Rev. Sedgwick told me at our recent retreat that she'd never seen anyone stand so still and so straight for so long.




See, I'm really good at following directions.

Seriously though, he really did just stand there. I didn't want to just take the mask off. I was waiting for some signal that he was ready for it to come off, but I think Someone was not ready.

--------------------
Darkwolf

Speak Ma'at, do Ma'at.


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Setsfilia
KOL


Reged: 04/22/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Florida, USA
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22286 - 03/26/04 06:50 AM

Em Hotep,

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Thom for posting this! I was just discussing saq on another message board and realizing I knew very, very little about it. I know it wasn't easy for you to share this, but I am very glad you did. It has added greatly to my understanding of what saq is and what the experience is like.

--------------------
~Setsfilia~

"Hail to you, O Set, son of Nut, the great of strength in the barque of millions, felling the enemy, the snake, at the prow of the barque of Re, great of battle-cry, may you give me a good lifetime...." ~ Four Hundred Years stela


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Setsfilia
KOL


Reged: 04/22/03
Posts: 35
Loc: Florida, USA
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: RevRenee]
      #22287 - 03/26/04 07:00 AM

Quote:

I can only tell you that there are lots of different sorts of trance in which Netjer or other beings use one in various ways to convey a message




Em Hotep Rev. Renee,
*bow*

Could you elaborate a bit on these other kinds of trances? Or perhaps, point me in the direction of some books to learn more?

I have had...experiences...with Set that have been likened to saq by others. However, I do not believe that it truly *was* saq, but perhaps some other kind of trance like you mentioned.(???)

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what to make of the whole thing, but this topic coming up in three different discussions this week seems to be an awful large coincidence to me.

--------------------
~Setsfilia~

"Hail to you, O Set, son of Nut, the great of strength in the barque of millions, felling the enemy, the snake, at the prow of the barque of Re, great of battle-cry, may you give me a good lifetime...." ~ Four Hundred Years stela


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crimson
KOL


Reged: 04/07/03
Posts: 508
Loc: Nottingham, england
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: RevRenee]
      #22289 - 03/26/04 09:38 AM

em hotep rev. renee...
i guess that is more how i was seeing it..as something that would be revitalizing as well as draining..if that makes sense....but since i have never witnessed a saq or even a trance, i guess perhaps i confused the two!


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Genie
KOL


Reged: 08/16/03
Posts: 165
Loc: Nottingham U.K
Re: Saq it to me! new [Re: Pamiuhotep]
      #22291 - 03/26/04 10:43 AM

Thanks for that Pamiu / Evryone
Its so intresting hearing about all your experiances even if they did feel not so good at the time. All the posts here are fantastic. Its great to read all your experiances guys. I myself have never even managed a trance never mind a saqing. Still im learning

Keep them coming guys.


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