tamarion
KOL
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 21
Loc: calif
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I feel bad for the life lost, and wish things had gone better in Isep's life so he would not have felt he had to do what he did, before in his journal thing, and now, passing on as he did. He will be in my thoughts the next 70 days. Thanks for sending the info about his passing...i have not kept up here for some time, shame it took something like this to remind me of you all here.
Tamarion
Edited by RevRenee (10/16/03 07:12 PM)
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RevRenee
Founder-Wehemu
Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
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Hotep
<bow>
Stepping out of the Priest role a moment.
It makes me furious that that guy would waste his life.
I always thought he was smart enough that he would eventually recognize that he did not need to allow an early error to mess up all that he could have done or been
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
I am furious at him for that!
</rant>
Rev Renee
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Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
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tamarion
KOL
Reged: 01/15/03
Posts: 21
Loc: calif
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Hotep <bow> to Rev Renee...
i have known too many people, family members esp that wasted their lives, and some that died because of it...some who 'had it all' as far as brains or talent, and some who didn't realise that they had so much more than they thought...i know what you mean about being angry. I am still angry at them years and years later. recently a family member of mine gave up and stopped hoping, and didn't care what happened to him...it is like he went on a death-wish. if a person can see past the outside of a person and see what they are capable of it hurts and makes them angry, and sad, and sometimes disgusted with the way things turn out. yes, what a waste for someone to forget they are human and err, but that they can change and learn from the past to better their future. we mourn the loss of what could have been for Isep. sometimes it can be a wake up call to others to live and love and be and treasure life, but also to forgive oneself for the past and move on, and learn from mistakes...that's why we make them. sometimes errors cannot be fixed, but then we work from where we are, that exact place, to grow and learn and be better than we were the day before. each day is a fresh start as long as we don't let the past drag us down, and make us lose hope. without hope we do anything just to barely exist...and that is what it becomes, just existing, til we give up on life itself.
okay...off my soap box.
Tam
Edited by RevRenee (10/16/03 07:13 PM)
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RevSedgwick
Heri Tep Hem Netjer
Reged: 04/12/02
Posts: 361
Loc: Racine, WI
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Hotep, Tamarion and all! <bow>
Let me join you on that soapbox before you step down, Tamarion. I am very angry, too. I was angry that Isep hurt people and knew it and didn't seem to care. I was angry that he was so smart and talented and he turned all of that to goals that weren't worthy of who he could be. I was angry that for whatever reason he was completely convinced that he really had no other choice and that no one would ever give him another choice, even though Rev Renee made it clear that he could have another chance here. I was angry that he seemed to be making it his life's work to post really mean and hurtful things about people, in the name of exposing the truth. And I was angry that he felt he had been so hurt by some of these people that he had no other option but to take this kind of action.
But I'm most angry that he took his life yesterday, if that's in fact what he did. What a waste! That makes me furious. I never gave up on him or on hoping that he could see the world differently and then act differently. But he seemingly gave up on himself and now I will never have a chance to know him here. Man! That makes me really mad. And sad.
Rev Sedgwick
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Rev Sedgwick Heskett, Hemet NebetHet-Nit and Amun
Heri Tep Hem Netjer Per Ankh
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
Edited by RevRenee (10/16/03 07:14 PM)
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Caithlyn
Priest Candidate
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 253
Loc: Ada, Ohio
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Hotep Rev Sedgwick, Rev Renee, Rev Jade and all members!
*bows*
This is very sad and shocking news. That someone who touched so many people would be gone from their family of friends and associates.
I didn't know Isep, except from his posts, and the posts of some of those that he touched. But from what I have read, and heard... this was a person who was lost to himself. It's always a shame when someone becomes almost unreachable and rejects help when it is offered, or considers the situation to be helpless... or more to the point... that life was a matter of being "me against the world" mentality.
For the brief time that I knew of Isep... I saw his energy rip through things that were very tender and fragile... relationships and alliances between people within a new culture, and a temple with a different worldview.
For me it was hard enough coming from the mindset that I was I approached my daily life with, to come to a place with some totally foreign thoughts, try them on, and get so intensely tested while still trying to work through the details.
Part of me is angry for this massive disruption... Because it didn't just happen to me, it happened to many people. Part of me is angry at Isep for how he lived his life (the last 9 months that I know of, at least) and part of me can see that he was meant to accomplish something in this world... and perhaps that is to shake all of us up.
To give those that remain behind something to remember, something to think about, and something to re-evaluate. He made mistakes, and we watched it or lived through them. But whatever he did or thought... we are more the wiser as a community for his lessons.
Yes, it was a waste that a young man would commit suicide... but, on the other hand... there is a place, so dark and so lonely, that you can feel like the on-coming light is a train ready to run you over. There is a sense of pain that can be so blinding that it keeps you from seeing that there are people that care and could help. And I feel, this is my opinion, that this is the place where Isep was in his final hours.
May his passing be swift.
May his lessons be learned.
May his heart be weighed and his soul be given another chance.
Senebty,
SC
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Caithlyn Hydock, Priest Candidate
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
Edited by RevRenee (10/16/03 09:57 PM)
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SatAsetNebetHet
KOL
Reged: 10/16/02
Posts: 499
Loc: USA
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em hotep all *bow*,
I was angry at Isep for his actions here. That's all I ever knew of him really. I'd heard he was running from the law later. I know he touched some with love and others with rage. He will be missed by many.
In the end, at least he died on his terms. At least he did what he thought he had to do.
May his soul progress well to become an Akhu.
senebty,
Chelsea Luellon
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Daughter of Aset and Nebet Het
Devotee of Wepwawet, Nit, Wesir and Sekhmet
Edited by RevRenee (10/16/03 09:58 PM)
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WabSandie
Senior Wab Priest /Ritual Coordinator
Reged: 04/11/02
Posts: 898
Loc: Austin, TX, USA
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Em Hotep! *bow*
to be brutally blunt, my first thoughts were "well, ma'at works"...
What I'm coming up against now is the challenge of really experiencing Zep Tepi. I had just pretty much put John out of my mind and so I never worried about resolving the behavior and the person. I--and I'm sure I'm not the only one--get to face that now. My challenge at the moment is really one of releasing and letting go so I can move on and be what I need to be.
I have no problem separating the behavior and the person when people screw up here and there like people are wont to do. I have no problem separating the person and the behavior when people screw up a lot and I can still see they're really trying. Even if I don't agree with their behavior, if I can have faith that they really see what they're doing as the best option at the time, I can separate the person from the behavior. I guess the problem I'm having doing that with John is that he maintained the same types of behaviors for so long and put so much energy into them and really didn't seem to care if what he was doing was right or wrong. He struck me as highly self-serving, and I really got the sense that he didn't have any remorse for screwing people over, that in many ways and at many times, he enjoyed it. That's the problem I'm having.
I fully admit there are areas in which I lack seriously in the compassion department, and I know he had a tough time, but lots of people have tough times and manage to pull their heads out of their backsides...lots of people suffer with depression and psychosis and abuse and addiction and don't make a living out of hurting and taking advantage of people. It angers me that he did those things, that he seemed to glean some sort of deviant glee out of it, that he felt like the rules of ma'at didn't apply to him, like he had special dispensation to be an agent of isfet, and that he did so purposely and without any remorse. I'm sure if I'd known him apart from LJ and the politics in Per Ankh, I might feel differently. But I didn't, and I don't. We all have hardships, and the way we choose to deal with them really reveals the kind of person we are. Like I've said before, though, there are some areas in which I am a total hardass... 
I am glad that folks in the temple and KOL are being supportive and not perpetuating any of the quarreling that happened previously. I'm glad the posts so far have been positive and caring. I think that's really awesome and shows just what caliber people we have.
I just can't bring myself to do that, yet, though. I wouldn't be able to do it sincerely, and I really don't want to be a hypocrite. I need to get myself to a point where I can get back to Zep Tepi. I'm a big believer in a person being responsible for their actions, and I have to admit that on one level, it bothers me that people are seeming to largely forgive and forget the nasty things he did...not because it does any good to continue to hold him responsible but because it seems to that petty, angry part of me to be sending a message that everything has just been accepted and it's okay. I know that's not really the case, and it's not really a rational response, but that's the thing about feelings...they're so biological and organic and messy...LOL 
I, though, despite the prevailing tendencies in society, have never been one to talk differently about a person just because they've died. If I thought they were irresponsible and jerky in life, I feel like a major hypocrite if I do a 180 and speak only kindly and glowingly about them after they've passed on. So what I feel I need to do is figure out what exactly is making me angry, get it resolved, and get to a point where I can truly separate the behavior and the person/spirit and sincerely hope his spirit goes on to better experiences and do my part to help that. I think, actually, writing my thoughts and feelings down has gone a long way toward doing that because it's helped me begin to clarify what's bothering me, and once I can see it, I can weigh whether or not my responses make sense to me.
Senebty!
Wab Sandie
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Senior Wab Priest of HetHert-Sekhmet --|<>]
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
www.per-ankh.org
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RevRenee
Founder-Wehemu
Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
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Em hotep Wab Sandie
<bow>
You are asolutely right and John would be among first to agree..that John got pleasure from causes confusion and Isfet.Our faith will never condone that sort of deliberate and malicious harm...regardles of the cause.
And the fact that he suffered greatly in life or was mistreated and abused does not make it any more acceptible.
I can also see that you would never have been in a position to see the marshmellow John...or that fearful little boy John (which he worked so darn hard to hide) or the compassionate helper and lover.
I suspect no one who knew him for any lebgth of time that knew the later did not also experience some of the former
I had glimses of it...so I do know that those who know that side of John aren't just making it up.
I have had...and still havea lot of hope for John..
And to be honest purhaps now he can reach out and accept the assistance of the Akhu and Netjer..which he could not do when he walked among us.
What I know though is..here is a time we CAN ACTUALLY help him do the right thing.
Praying for him..beleiving he CAN come through this transition successfully is absolutely essential right now.
As is supporting those affected by him --for good, bad or both as they go through their feelings..
Which are bound to be conflicted...
As uch for those closest to him and those he thinks hated him because they did not permit these behaviors.
We need to call out to Nebet Het:
He has come to You
O Nebet Het
John Hagins has come to You
Receive Him With Open Arms
Johns future was in his hands. Now for the next period..it is in ours.
Keep his name and the candles going. We will keep the rites happening her at Sekhem School
Blessings
Rev Renee
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Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
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Nebra
KOL
Reged: 08/01/02
Posts: 2383
Loc: Left kansas withToto
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Hotep everyone..... I didn't truely know John but I am very saddened by what on the surface seems to be another bad choice.... This choice has hurt even those that loved him..... ending one's self may not be wrong ...... but sometimes the reason for doing it is..... a prison term isn't forever.... but death truely is..... I'll light a candle for him and pray that the way he lead his earthy life did not harm his souls chances in the hall of Judgment ... that's the side of this that has me profoundly saddened 
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RevRenee
Founder-Wehemu
Reged: 06/12/01
Posts: 2727
Loc: Racine Wisconsin
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Hotep Nebra
<bow>
Heka is important here.
State any prayer POSITiVELY
For instance Pray that he IS Received
That They WILL Justify Him etc
Speak to Netjer with Confidence that They will Raise Him up,
Best
Rev Renee
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Rev Renee Levant, Hemet Sekhmet & Aset
Founder & Wehemu & Educational Director
Per Ankh: The Traditional Religion of Ancient Egypt
http://www.per-ankh.org
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